What Humans, Animals and Plants Tell Us About Consciousness | Michael Pollan

September 28, 2026

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5 min read

In 1970, the first mirror test on a chimpanzee suggested that non-human animals might be conscious—a radical break from centuries of Cartesian certainty that consciousness belonged only to humans. Michael Pollan, the author whose work has reshaped how we think about food, psychedelics, and now consciousness, spoke with Andrew Huberman about what it means to be conscious, whether plants have a version of it, and why the hardest problems in neuroscience may require abandoning the assumption that we already know what we are looking for.

Pollan’s new book, A World Appears: A Journey into Consciousness, synthesizes philosophy, neuroscience, and biology into a portrait of a phenomenon that is both the most certain thing we know and the most mysterious. “There’s nothing we know with more certainty than the fact that we’re conscious,” he said. “It’s the only thing we can be sure of. Everything else we know through consciousness.” Defining it, however, is another matter. Pollan relies on a definition from philosopher Thomas Nagel: if there is “something it is like” to be a creature—if experience has a subjective character—then that creature is conscious. By that standard, bats are conscious. So are dogs. The question of whether an advanced AI could be conscious is open, but Pollan is skeptical: “A computer simulation of a feeling is very different than a simulation of a thought, whic

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What you'll learn

1 (02:50) **Opening and Defining Consciousness** - Huberman welcomes Michael Pollan; they discuss Wendell Berry’s influence and Pollan’s gardening philosophy before pivoting to the core topic.
2 (12:41) **Anesthetics and Plant Sentience** - Pollan explains that plants respond to the same anesthetics humans do, raising deep questions about what is lost when a plant is “put under.”
3 (16:39) **Self vs. Other as a Foundational Rule** - Huberman and Pollan explore how the distinction between self and non-self is a basic biological principle that may underlie consciousness.
4 (21:08) **Cross-Species Communication and Plant Intelligence** - The conversation turns to whether plants actively communicate with humans, a notion Pollan takes seriously after his own psychedelic experience.
5 (28:43) **Evolution, Genes, and Novel Problem-Solving** - Pollan discusses Michael Levin’s work showing that cognition and memory can exist outside neurons and genes.
6 (34:38) **The Microbiome and the Vehicle Hypothesis** - Huberman shares his anxiety that human ambition (Mars, politics) may just be microbiota manipulating us to spread.
7 (42:37) **Collective Consciousness and the Ego** - Huberman asks Pollan to redefine “collective consciousness” beyond the cliché of “one love.”

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Guests on this episode

Andrew Huberman

Show Notes

Michael Pollan is a renowned author, journalist and professor at UC Berkeley. He is best known for his influential works on how humans and plants have shaped each other at the level of food, medicine, health, and culture. In this episode we discuss consciousness—what it is and how the recognition between our self vs others contributes to-- but also can impair, certain aspects of conscious experience. We discuss psychedelics, the microbiome, caffeine, and how the unconscious dialogue between our body and brain impacts our thoughts and feelings. Pollan offers a hopeful perspective on how our relationship with plants and animals – including other humans, can lead us to a healthier, and far richer experience of life.

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Timestamps

(00:00:00) Michael Pollan

(00:02:50) Wendell Berry, Nature

(00:06:30) Consciousness; Sentience

(00:10:04) Environmental Response, Plant Intelligence; Self-Recognition