Do This, NOT That: Marketing Tips with Jay Schwedelson

SPECIAL GUEST!! Steve Armenti 🚫 Your "ABM" Is Just Cold Email | Ep. 548

August 7, 2026

AI Summary

5 min read

Here is the summary of the conversation between Jay Schwedelson and Steve Armenti.

Steve Armenti, a former demand gen leader at Google and founder of 12 Agency, has a blunt diagnosis for most of what passes as account-based marketing (ABM) today: it is just cold email dressed up in a buzzword. The problem, he argues, is not the concept of ABM itself, but a flood of startups and agencies that have stripped it of its complexity. They scrape contacts from tools like ZoomInfo and Clay, blast out personalized templates, and call it a strategy. For Armenti, this is a fundamental misunderstanding. True ABM is designed for high-ACV, complex deals sold to the Fortune 1000—the kind of programs he ran at Google and now builds for clients like Snowflake and Red Hat. The economics of a $5,000 ARR deal simply cannot support the research, orchestration, and human touch that real ABM requires. The result is a market where the term has been hollowed out, and the buyer is left drowning in what Armenti calls "slop."

Why Demand Gen Is Getting Harder

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What you'll learn

1 (00:00) **Intro & Guest Welcome** - Jay introduces Steve Armenti, a former Google demand gen leader and #1 ranked ABM expert.
2 (02:23) **The Cold Email "ABM" Problem** - Jay asks if most ABM programs are just cold email, and Steve strongly pushes back.
3 (05:10) **Why Demand Gen Is Getting Harder** - Steve explains the macro trends crushing channel performance.
4 (07:57) **The Inbound vs. Outbound Trap** - Jay argues companies obsess over upset unsubscribes while ignoring warm inbound leads.
5 (09:00) **It’s Not the Channel, It’s the Intention** - Steve clarifies that channels aren't broken; the purpose behind them is.
6 (10:32) **Measuring ABM: Account Progression Model** - Steve shares his unique attribution approach.
7 (12:53) **Focus on Positive Signals, Not Dead Leads** - Jay notes brands waste energy on re-engaging dead lists instead of nurturing new customers.

+ Full timestamped outline available in the app

Guests on this episode

Jay Schwedelson

Show Notes

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There's a version of ABM floating around that's really just cold email wearing a nicer outfit, and Steve Armenti has made it his personal mission to call that out. He spent years running demand gen at Google before founding twelfth, and he walks Jay Schwedelson through why every channel feels harder right now, why AI is quietly making it worse, and what still breaks through when your buyer is drowning in slop. The last stretch gets unexpectedly personal, too.

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Follow Steve Armenti on LinkedIn, where he shares his ABM and demand gen content. He also invites listeners to look at signal-based one-to-one experiences, deeply researching prospects and then curating real exp