AI Summary
5 min read"What Is a Podcast?" — Lindsey Graham's First Verdict Appearance
The first guest ever on Verdict with Ted Cruz was Senator Lindsey Graham, and he began by asking, "What is a podcast?" That was January 2020, in the middle of the first Trump impeachment trial. Graham had just left the Senate floor around midnight to record the episode. The conversation captured a pivotal moment: the day the Senate voted against calling new witnesses, effectively ending the trial. This flashback episode, aired after Graham's death, preserves the inside story of how that vote came together.
The Pivot That Changed Everything
The central question of the trial was whether to call John Bolton as a witness. The New York Times had published an excerpt claiming Bolton had direct evidence that President Trump conditioned Ukraine aid on investigations into the Bidens. Democrats wanted Bolton; Republicans needed to hold their line. The vote was razor-thin: 47 Democrats plus two Republicans (Mitt Romney and Susan Collins) were already committed to calling witnesses. That left Lamar Alexander and Lisa Murkowski as the two undecided votes.
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What you'll learn
- 1 (00:04) **Introduction & Tribute to Lindsey Graham** - Ben Ferguson opens by explaining that this is a special flashback episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz, recorded during the first Trump impeachment. He pays tribute to Senator Lindsey Graham, who recently passed away, calling him a one-of-a-kind patriot and noting that Graham was the very first guest on the show.
- 2 (04:00) **The Day's Shocking Vote: No More Witnesses** - Senators Cruz and Graham break down the biggest development of the day: the Senate voted against calling new witnesses, which could end the trial quickly instead of dragging on for months.
- 3 (05:46) **The Pivotal Moment: Adam Schiff's Mistake** - Cruz and Graham identify the exact moment in the trial that shifted the dynamics and gave them a winning argument to convince swing senators.
- 4 (09:26) **The Critical Question to the White House Team** - Cruz and Graham reveal how they wrote and forced the White House legal team to answer the question that unlocked the votes they needed.
- 5 (12:57) **The "Assume Arguendo" Strategy Explained** - The senators walk through the legal and rhetorical logic that convinced Lamar Alexander and Lisa Murkowski to vote against witnesses.
- 6 (16:19) **Trial Lawyer vs. Appellate Lawyer: Teaming Up to Move Senators** - Cruz and Graham discuss how their different legal backgrounds complemented each other in persuading their colleagues.
- 7 (18:29) **The Supreme Court Trap: How Democrats Helped Their Own Defeat** - Cruz and Graham explain how Elizabeth Warren's question about Chief Justice Roberts backfired and helped secure the votes against witnesses.
+ Full timestamped outline available in the app
Guests on this episode
Show Notes
1. Tribute to Lindsey Graham
- U.S. Senator 23 years in the Senate
- A veteran with 33 years of Air Force service
- An influential figure in Republican politics
- A close friend and ally of Ted Cruz
2. Trump's First Impeachment Trial
- Debate over whether additional witnesses, particularly former National Security Adviser John Bolton, should be called.
- Efforts by Republican senators to prevent the trial from expanding into a lengthy investigation.
- Arguments that the House impeachment process was rushed and lacked due process.
- Discussion of a Senate vote that ultimately rejected calling additional witnesses.
3. Senate Strategy and Politics
Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham explain behind-the-scenes efforts to persuade key Republican senators, especially:
- Lisa Murkowski (Alaska)
- Lamar Alexander (Tennessee)
4. Constitutional Issues
- Executive privilege
- Separation of powers
- The Supreme Court and Chief Justice John Roberts
5. Criticism of Democrats
- House impeachment managers such as Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler
- Senator Elizabeth Warren
- The Democratic Party's impeachment strategy
6. Hunter Biden and Ukraine
- Hunter Biden's work with Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company
- Questions about conflicts of interest involving the Biden family
- Calls for further investigation into those matters
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