Former CIA Officer & Torture Program Whistleblower | John Kiriakou

October 22, 2026

AI Summary

5 min read

In January 2000, retired CIA officer John Kiriakou was driving to work in Athens when he hit a traffic jam on the main highway. He turned on the radio—something he never did, because he was always scanning for assassins on motorcycles. The announcer reported a "terrorist incident" at the halfway point. Kiriakou inched closer and saw a British Rover with blood splashed across the back window. It belonged to Brigadier General Stephen Saunders, the British defence attaché and his neighbor, who had been shot with an anti-tank round and then executed with the same .45 pistol used to kill the CIA's Athens station chief in 1975. Two weeks earlier, Saunders had mocked Kiriakou for driving an armored car. The terrorist group 17 November later claimed responsibility—and named Kiriakou in their manifesto as "the big spy" they had spared because he was armored and armed.

From Analyst to Case Officer in Athens

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What you'll learn

1 (02:05) **Upbringing and Path to Federal Service** - Kiriakou describes growing up in a Greek immigrant family in western Pennsylvania, where public service was instilled as a duty of gratitude.
2 (07:14) **Recruitment into the CIA** - Kiriakou recounts the unusual, and now illegal, way he was recruited by a CIA officer posing as a professor at George Washington University.
3 (12:59) **Early Career as an Analyst and the Gulf War** - Kiriakou describes his start as a leadership analyst for Iraq and his sudden rise to prominence during the first Gulf War.
4 (20:59) **Transition from Analysis to Operations** - Bored with analysis, Kiriakou leverages his unique language skills to move into the CIA's operations directorate, a highly unusual move pre-9/11.
5 (30:28) **Counter-Terrorism in Athens and the Threat of 17 November** - Kiriakou details his mission to recruit spies against Greek terrorist groups, particularly the lethal Revolutionary Organization 17 November.
6 (46:00) **The Assassination of Stephen Saunders** - Kiriakou gives a harrowing, first-hand account of the day his friend and neighbor, British Defence Attaché Brigadier General Stephen Saunders, was assassinated by 17 November.
7 (57:08) **Who Was 17 November?** - Kiriakou analyzes the organization, revealing it was a small, secretive, and ideologically driven group that learned tradecraft organically.

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Guests on this episode

John Kiriakou

Show Notes

John Kiriakou is a former CIA officer who worked as both an analyst and operations officer, serving on the Iraq portfolio, in Greece, and in Pakistan, where he helped lead the capture of Abu Zubaydah. He later became a prominent whistleblower on the CIA’s post-9/11 torture program, was prosecuted under the Espionage Act, served time in federal prison, and has since worked as an author, commentator, and lecturer.

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00:00 – Start
01:01 – John Kiriakou’s Upbringing & Greek-American Family
06:29 – Studying Middle Eastern Affairs & an Early Interest in Espionage
09:15 – The CIA Officer Posing as His College Professor
12:29 – Joining the CIA as an Analyst
14:53 – Briefing President George H.W. Bush During the Gulf War
16:58 – Working the Gulf War From CIA Headquarters
20:06 – Life After the Gulf War & Getting Burned Out on Iraq
22:30 – Writing a National Intelligence Estimate on Saddam Hussein
22:53 – Deciding to Leave Analysis for Operations
25:06 – Going Through CIA Operational Training
28:37 – Weapons, Explosives & Recruiting Spies
29:45 – Arriving in Athens as a CIA Case Officer
33:46 – Walk-Ins, Probes & Embassy Security
37:52 – CIA Disguises & Fooling the U.S. Ambassador
42:40 – The Terrorist Group 17 November
45:12 – The Assassination of British Defense Attaché Stephen Saunders
48:38 – 17 November Names Kiriakou in Its Manifesto
51:26 – Who Was Really Behind 17 November?
55:09 – How the Group Was Finally Unmasked
1:01:24 – Interrogating Carlos the Jackal
1:03:32 – 9/11 Changes Everything
1:04:44 – Watching the Second Plane Hit From CIA Headquarters
1:07:41 – Volunteering for the War on Terror
1:08:34 – Pakistan After 9/11: “The Wild West”
1:11:38 – Pakistan, the Taliban & the War Next Door
1:14:02 – The Two Faces of Pakistani Intelligence
1:15:51 – Capturing Abu Zubaydah
1:16:42 – Inside the CIA’s Torture Program
1:18:09 – Why Kiriakou Refused Torture Training
1:18:43 – Going Public About CIA Torture
1:21:17 – John Brennan Reopens the Case Against Him
1:21:40 – Charged Under the Espionage Act
1:22:34 – Facing 45 Years & Taking the Plea Deal
1:23:08 – Why John Brennan Wanted Him Prosecuted
1:23:32 – Obama’s Crackdown on National Security Leaks
1:25:57 – Heading to Federal Prison
1:26:24 – The Prison Assignment That Wasn’t What the Judge Ordered
1:29:21 – Learning How to Survive Federal Prison
1:31:30 – Becoming the Prisonhouse Appeal Writer
1:32:36 – Race, Gangs & the Social Structure of Prison
1:36:47 – How the Mafia Ran Prison Rackets
1:43:10 – U