Playing Stupid Games, Winning Stupid Prizes (with Bill Kristol)

January 17, 2026

AI Summary

5 min read

🎙️ The Voices & The Context

The Format: Casual political interview with embedded focus group clips from Biden-to-Trump voters and MAGA Republicans, blending analysis, banter, and voter reactions.
The Key Players:
- Host: Sarah Longwell, Bulwark publisher and anti-Trump conservative, known for focus groups decoding swing voters.
- Guest: Bill Kristol, Bulwark editor-at-large, former Reagan aide turned Never Trumper, offering sharp historical perspective.
The Vibe: Intense and educational with frustrated outrage over Trump scandals, light banter on personal evolution, and grim fascination with voter denial.

🗝️ Key Themes & Topics

Hosts dissect Trump scandals one year into his term, arguing they're drowned out by chaos but erode support. They reflect on how Trump's rise forced them to rethink conservatism amid rising nativism, authoritarianism, and elite corruption.

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What you'll learn

1 (00:00) **🎙️ Introduction: Bill Crystal**
2 (03:27) **Reflections on 10 Years of Trump and Personal View Shifts**
3 (12:36) **ICE Officer Killing of Renee Good in Minneapolis**
4 (27:21) **Epstein Files Rollout and Public Interest**
5 (42:46) **MAGA Voters on GOP Critics Like MTG and Massie**
6 (48:51) **Future of the Republican Party**
7 (50:58) **Criminal Investigation into Fed Chair Jerome Powell**

+ Full timestamped outline available in the app

Show Notes

There's a lot of bad news right now—so much that none of it is breaking through that much to the voters we talked to. From the ICE killing of Renee Good to the Epstein files to the criminal investigation into Jerome Powell, Bulwark editor-at-large Bill Kristol joins Sarah for a reflective conversation on the tough times we live in and how voters are processing them.

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Previous shows discussing the Epstein Files:
With Will Sommer (November 2025)
With Ashley Parker (September 2025)
With Will Sommer (July 2025)