AI Summary
5 min readIn the video that went viral, New York City Mayor Eric Adams—then Zoran Rondani—stood before a camera and called for the arrest of Benjamin Netanyahu. “Anyone with their eyes, with their heart, with their conscience, should recognize the devastation he has wrought,” he said, before conceding that he lacked the legal authority to enforce the International Criminal Court’s warrant. Linda Kinsler, a Harvard fellow and author of Come to This Court and Cry, saw the clip as a perfect illustration of international law’s dilemma: it has immense moral force when someone speaks its language, but it also exposes its own weakness when the speaker admits it cannot be enforced. “There’s a danger,” Kinsler told Ezra Klein, “because you’re also calling attention to the paucity of international law, of its inability to work.”
What International Law Actually Is
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What you'll learn
- 1 What if America Followed the Rules?
- 2 The Ezra Klein Show — Linda Kinstler
- 3 (02:00) **Opening: The ICC Arrest Warrant Video** - Ezra and Linda discuss Mayor Zoran Romdani's video calling for Benjamin Netanyahu's arrest and what it reveals about international law's current predicament
- 4 (05:10) **Defining International Law** - Linda clarifies what the term actually covers beyond the criminal cases that dominate headlines
- 5 (06:49) **The Democratic Party's Foreign Policy Rapture** - How Biden's faith in international institutions collided with Ukraine and Gaza, creating a crisis of belief on the left
- 6 (08:51) **Why Israel, Not Other Conflicts?** - Addressing the question of why Israel and Gaza have become the center of international law debates
- 7 (11:05) **The "Follow the Rules" Turn on the Left** - Examining the emerging argument that America should simply submit to international law
+ Full timestamped outline available in the app
Guests on this episode
Show Notes
We’re in a really strange moment in the foreign policy politics of the Democratic Party. People are looking for an alternative vision — an approach to American power in the world that would feel more moral and just, after the failures of President Biden, and the wrecking ball President Trump has taken to international rules and norms.
The answer many on the left are coming to is powerfully simple: international law. America could just start following the rules that we helped write. Is that possible? Is that enough? What would that even look like?
To talk through these questions, I invited Linda Kinstler on the show. She’s a member of the Society of Fellows at Harvard, a contributing writer at The New York Times Magazine, and the author of “Come to This Court and Cry: How the Holocaust Ends.” She’s done some incredible writing and reporting on whether what we’re watching is the death of international law. In this conversation, we talk about the Biden administration’s failures to live up to the principles it set for itself, the Trump administration’s campaign to destroy the International Criminal Court and what it would take to reinvigorate international law.
Mentioned:
“Are we witnessing the death of international law?” by Linda Kinstler
“Abdul El-Sayed, U.S. Senate candidate, on AIPAC and Israel” by Detroit Free Press Opinion Staff
Book Recommendations:
The Divided City by Nicole Loraux
Crossing the Red Line by Akbar Shahid Ahmed
Under Water by Tara Menon
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Kelsey Lannin, with Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Johnny Simon. Our recording engineer is Aman Sahota. Cinematography by Marina King. Video editing by Steph Khoury and Arpita Aneja. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione,
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