‘This Is Something That Traditional Economics Isn’t Prepared to Deal With’
December 23, 2025
AI Summary
5 min read🎙️ The Voices & The Context
- The Format: This structured interview weaves host-led discussions with expert guests through charts and anecdotes to unpack 2025's bewildering economy, blending data dives with reflective storytelling on policy chaos and tech booms. Analytical yet bemused, it probes economic puzzles without tidy resolutions.
- The Format: Interview with two co-hosts of Bloomberg's Odd Lots podcast.
- The Key Players:
- Ezra Klein (Host): New York Times columnist and podcaster known for deep dives into policy and economics, steering the conversation with charts and probing questions.
- Tracy Alloway & Joe Weisenthal (Guests): Bloomberg journalists and Odd Lots co-hosts, famous for decoding market oddities; their sharp chemistry sparks witty banter on data surprises and business resilience, blending skepticism with admiration for corporate adaptability.
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What you'll learn
- 1 (00:00) **🎙️ Introduction: Tracy Alloway and Joe Weisenthal**
- 2 (03:01) **Current State of the Economy**
- 3 (06:03) **Tariffs: From Liberation Day Chaos to High Steady Rates**
- 4 (11:50) **Business Resilience and Tariff Impacts**
- 5 (17:07) **Tariffs vs. China: Deals and Policy Shifts**
- 6 (32:10) **AI Build-Out Driving GDP**
- 7 (36:46) **AI Payoff Arguments and Business Models**
+ Full timestamped outline available in the app
Show Notes
This is the strangest economy I’ve seen in my lifetime. If you just looked at the macro data — the jobs numbers, G.D.P., the stock market — things look pretty normal. But they clearly aren’t normal. The Trump administration spent the year upending the global trade system while tech companies spent hundreds of billions of dollars on A.I., a technology that could potentially displace many of our jobs. And people don’t feel normal, either. Survey data shows that the vibecession rages on.
Tracy Alloway and Joe Weisenthal are the co-hosts of the excellent economics podcast “Odd Lots” and have closely followed all the chaos this year. So I wanted to have them on the show to explain what the hell is going on.
Mentioned:
The Three-Body Problem by Cixin Liu
“The Vibecession: The Self-Fulfilling Prophecy” by Kyla Scanlon
“Everyone is Gambling and No One is Happy” by Kyla Scanlon
Book Recommendations:
Breakneck by Dan Wang
North Woods by Daniel Mason
A Marriage at Sea by Sophie Elmhirst
The Digital Reversal by Andrey Mir
Orality and Literacy by Walter J. Ong
No Sense of Place by Joshua Meyrowitz
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at More from this podcast