AI Summary
5 min readIn 2023, Gary Wingens, chair of the 400-lawyer firm Lowenstein Sandler, quoted a client $10 million to review thousands of trust agreements. The client said no. A year later, using AI, the same project cost $3 million. The client said yes. That 70% price collapse is a concrete example of what Wingens calls the Jevons paradox in legal services: as the cost of a unit of legal work falls, the volume of work expands, and total revenue may not shrink at all. In a wide-ranging conversation on the Odd Lots podcast, Wingens explains how AI is reshaping law—not just by cutting costs, but by acting as a thought partner, changing how junior lawyers train, and potentially expanding the total amount of legal work in the economy.
The Jevons Paradox in Legal Services
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What you'll learn
- 1 (00:00) **Episode Introduction & Host Framing** - Joe Wasenthal and Tracy Alloway introduce the topic: AI's impact on the legal profession, questioning whether it will reduce work or create a Jevons paradox of more bureaucracy.
- 2 (05:12) **Guest Introduction: Gary Wingens, Chair of Lowenstein Sandler** - Gary Wingens is introduced as the chair of a 400-lawyer firm focused on private capital, venture, and life sciences.
- 3 (06:00) **Why the Billable Hour Persists** - Gary explains the enduring dominance of the billable hour despite universal dislike.
- 4 (08:37) **AI as a Step Change: Efficiency vs. Thought Partner** - Gary distinguishes AI from prior tech (e.g., blacklining software) by its dual role.
- 5 (11:13) **Concrete Example: AI in a VC Financing Round** - Gary walks through the lawyer's role and how AI changes it.
- 6 (16:40) **How Do You Know AI Makes Work Better?** - Gary addresses skepticism about AI's value as a thought partner.
- 7 (20:59) **AI's Impact on Pricing and the Jevons Paradox** - Gary explains how AI compresses costs but expands the volume of work.
+ Full timestamped outline available in the app
Show Notes
It seems obvious that among the many industries that AI might disrupt, the legal profession might face some of the most adverse outcomes. When clerical, research-based tasks like searching through databases and reading contracts are automated, what is left for lawyers to do and how might they justify all those billable hours? In this episode we speak with Gary Wingens, chair and partner at the law firm Lowenstein Sandler. He talks about how his firm is using AI and why he thinks the technology could end up increasing legal work for lawyers as costs come down, creating a sort of “Jevon's paradox” for lawsuits, deals and litigation. We also talk about the billable hours model and training junior talent.
Read more: AI Legal Startup Norm Valued at $1.2 Billion Funding Round
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