AI Summary
5 min readMariana Mazzucato, professor at University College London and founder of the Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose, joins Odd Lots hosts Tracy Alloway and Joe Weisenthal at the Bloomberg CityLab conference in Madrid. She explains how governments can lead innovation through "missions"—bold, problem-focused challenges like the Apollo moonshot—rather than picking sectors or firms. Drawing from her books like The Entrepreneurial State and The Big Con, she distinguishes public sector strengths from weaknesses and critiques overreliance on consultants.
Missions Over Sectors
Mazzucato argues industrial policy has always existed but often lacks direction. The U.S. has long acted "Hamiltonian" (proactive government investment) while talking "Jeffersonian" (small government). Post-2020 shifts like the Inflation Reduction Act and EU recovery funds show spending alone isn't strategy; it risks "socializing risks and privatizing rewards" via handouts.
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What you'll learn
- 1 (01:52) **Conference Context** - Hosts discuss Bloomberg CityLab in Madrid, linking cities to innovation, policy, and Odd Lots themes
- 2 (04:57) **Guest Introduction** - Mariana Mazzucato on Spain's economic thinking, Global Council for Common Good Economy, Public Sector Capability Index
- 3 (06:16) **Entrepreneurial State Impact** - Book read by leaders like Spain's PM; questions on failing publicly vs. VC tolerance
- 4 (07:44) **Post-2020 Industrial Policy Shift** - Vindication but caveats: spending ≠ strategy; avoid handouts, socialize risks/privatize rewards
- 5 (09:16) **Missions Defined** - Bold challenges like healthy school lunches pulling in cross-sector innovation
- 6 (11:12) **State Capacity vs Capabilities** - Distinction: capacity (budget/staff), routines (stability), capabilities (agility, learning, partnerships)
- 7 (16:07) **Consultants Critique** - "The Big Con" book: governments weakened by outsourcing core tasks since 1980s downsizing
+ Full timestamped outline available in the app
Show Notes
Today's guest Mariana Mazzucato is one of our most requested. Mazzucato, who is the director of the University College London Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose, specializes in the political economy of technological development and public sector investment. In our conversation, recorded in Madrid while at the Bloomberg CityLab conference, she explains her concept of the "mission economy," her definition of state capacity, how to prevent top talent from fleeing to the private sector, and whether consultants or governments should be blamed for inefficiencies and civic failures. It's a wide-ranging interview, one that covers everything from the initial public financing of Silicon Valley algorithms to the history of moonshots.
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