Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

The rituals of great teams | Shishir Mehrotra of Coda, YouTube, Microsoft

August 14, 2022

AI Summary

5 min read

Shishir Mehrotra, CEO of Coda, shares frameworks from his experience at YouTube, Microsoft, and Coda for product growth, team culture, decision-making, and hiring. He emphasizes diagramming business loops, codifying rituals, identifying high-leverage questions, and assessing talent via structured references over interviews.

Coda's Black and Blue Loops

Coda grows through two loops: the Black Loop, where users create docs, share them internally (like Microsoft Office), and recipients create more; and the Blue Loop, where users publish docs publicly (like YouTube videos) for exposure, drawing in problem-solvers via the gallery, which feels like a mix of Medium and an app store. This shaped Maker Billing—charging only creators, not viewers or editors—to remove friction on sharing. Activation is highest from Black Loop shares, then Blue Loop templates, and lowest from blank signups. Teams adapt by supporting ecosystem narrators: owned messaging for top-of-funnel, sharer guidance for Black Loops, and publisher incentives for Blue Loops. Founders should diagram their loops early, often revealed in candidate pitches.

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What you'll learn

  • 1 *(00:00:25) **Guest Intro and Coda Writing Contest**
  • 2 *(00:08:22) **Black Loops vs. Blue Loops Growth Framework**
  • 3 *(00:14:31) **Discovering and Structuring Around Loops**
  • 4 *(00:24:40) **Rituals of Great Teams Book and Examples**
  • 5 *(00:46:06) **Eigenquestions for High-Leverage Decisions**
  • 6 *(01:04:44) **PSHE Framework for Talent Evaluation**
  • 7 *(01:21:12) **Interview Process and Lightning Round**

+ Full timestamped outline available in the app

Show Notes

Shishir Mehrotra is the co-founder and CEO of Coda, and formerly head of product and engineering at YouTube. In this episode, he shares his insights on growth strategy, how he evaluates talent, a peek at his upcoming book The Rituals of Great Teams, why reference checks are the most important step in the interview process, and so much more. Join us.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-rituals-of-great-teams-shishir-mehrotra-coda-youtube-microsoft/#transcript

Where to find Shishir Mehrotra:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/shishirmehrotra

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shishirmehrotra/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for making this episode possible:

• Coda: http://coda.io/lenny

• Flatfile: https://www.flatfile.com/lenny

• Eppo: https://www.geteppo.com/Referenced:

• The Rituals of Great Teams Braintrust: https://coda.io/@shishir/join-the-rituals-of-great-teams-braintrust

• Bing Gordon: https://www.kleinerperkins.com/people/bing-gordon/

Switch by Chip Heath and Dan Heath: https://www.amazon.com/Switch-Change-Things-When-Hard/dp/0385528752

• PSHE diagram: https://coda.io/@shishir/pshe

Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud: https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Comics-Invisible-Scott-McCloud/dp/1627652736

Only Murders in the Building: https://www.hulu.com/series/only-murders-in-the-building-ef31c

Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth