Into The Machine with Tobias Rose-Stockwell

Episode 4: Your kid will probably date an AI, and other terrifying thoughts – A conversation with the founder of Hinge

December 1, 2025

AI Summary

5 min read

In the movie Her, an AI surrogate shows up at the protagonist’s door wearing a human body as a “flesh suit,” taking instructions from the operating system through an earpiece. That scene, now over a decade old, captures a future that is already arriving. Justin McLeod, founder and CEO of Hinge, joined Tobias Rose-Stockwell to talk about what happens when algorithmic systems start mediating the most intimate human decision—who we mate with—and whether we are heading toward a world where people prefer AI partners to messy, real ones.

The alignment problem in dating apps

McLeod draws a sharp distinction between social media algorithms and what Hinge tries to do. Social media platforms, he argues, are designed to maximize engagement by preying on “the bottom of your brain stems,” harvesting attention and selling it to advertisers. That is a misalignment: the user wants belonging and connection, but the algorithm wants clicks and time-on-screen. Dating apps face a similar tension, but McLeod insists Hinge is different because it does not sell advertising. Its algorithm is built to get users on real dates, not to keep them swiping forever.

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What you'll learn

1 (00:10) **Opening Scene: The World of "Her" as a Prophecy** - The host sets the stage by describing the film *Her*, where the protagonist falls in love with an AI, and notes that the film's 2025 setting has become eerily prescient.
2 (04:02) **Introducing Justin McLeod** - The host brings on the founder and CEO of Hinge, who shares that 10% of US engagements now come from the app.
3 (06:55) **The Core Tension: Algorithmic Alignment vs. Engagement Metrics** - Justin explains how Hinge’s business model differs from social media by aligning its algorithm with user goals.
4 (10:24) **The Paradox of Efficiency** - The host projects a future where AI is asymptotically good at matching, asking what happens if the process becomes too efficient.
5 (12:47) **The Real Danger: Losing Patience for Humans** - Justin identifies his primary concern: people will prefer relationships with AIs over the difficult human process.
6 (17:09) **The Pendulum of Deference** - Justin pushes back on linear extrapolation, suggesting society might snap back from over-optimization toward authenticity.
7 (19:53) **Why a Relationship with an AI is a Contradiction** - Justin makes a sharp philosophical claim: you cannot have a real relationship with an AI.

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Show Notes

Will people stop dating humans?

Over a decade ago, the movie Her portrayed a world where by where large numbers of people opted out of dating, and instead turned to AI for their emotional needs.

Justin McLeod is the founder and CEO of Hinge. He has spent more than a decade thinking about how algorithms shape dating, choice, and human connection.

In this conversation, we look at the rise of AI companionship, how business incentives affect these systems, and where AI-driven intimacy may be heading.

I press Justin on the risks of people turning to AI instead of human relationships, how much autonomy we give to algorithms, and what responsible design might look like.

This episode maps out the key questions we should be asking as we lean further into machine-mediated love.

I hope you enjoy.

A small ask:

The irony is not lost on me in trying to critique the algorithms while still being dependent upon them to reach the right audience.

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