Move Through the Hard Times with Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
July 29, 2026
AI Summary
5 min read"I Will Never Hurt You. I Love You."
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson was a sophomore at Harvard when a white junior named Patrick tapped her on the shoulder in a sociology class called "The Changing Concept of Race in America." She did not know what flirting looked like. She had never had a boyfriend. So when he kept talking to her in that class but ignored her in a government class she thought he also attended, she confronted him. He explained: he had an identical twin brother, and Harvard was the first time in their lives they had been in the same school.
They became friends. He dated another girl. Then, on the last day of her sophomore year, he invited her to his family's summer house on Cape Cod. She spent the whole day hoping it was a date. He did not hold her hand. He did not try to kiss her. By evening she was furious. He offered to make her dinner at his parents' house. They watched Al Pacino's Sea of Love in the dark den. When he finally made a move, she jumped up and said "No." He asked what was wrong. She told him she did not want to be hurt. He stood up and said: "Ketanji, I will never hurt you. I love you."
They have been together ever since.
The Loneliness of Being the Smart Kid
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What you'll learn
- 1 Move Through the Hard Times with Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
- 2 (00:00) **Opening Banter & Matt Damon Story** - Justice Jackson recounts being paired with Matt Damon in a drama class at Harvard and getting the better review from the professor
- 3 (04:08) **Introduction: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson** - Michelle and Craig formally welcome the first African American woman to serve on the Supreme Court
- 4 (05:48) **Origin of Ambition: Law School at Age 3** - Jackson describes watching her father study law at the kitchen table, planting the seed for her own legal career
- 5 (07:34) **Why Kids Need Competition** - Jackson argues that competitive activities build resilience and perseverance for later success
- 6 (08:18) **The Loneliness of Being the Smart Kid** - Jackson opens up about being popular yet isolated in high school, with no dates despite being class president
- 7 (09:32) **Finding Community at Harvard** - Jackson explains why having a critical mass of Black students made college feel like home
+ Full timestamped outline available in the app
Guests on this episode
Show Notes
Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson joins Michelle and Craig to talk through her life before taking the bench. She opens up about past relationship struggles, gaining confidence in her work and balancing her career with early motherhood. Plus, she shares the romantic comedy-worthy story of how she met her husband.
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