Inside the 'modern slavery' where cyber scammers are victims themselves

What you'll learn

• 1 (00:00) **Opening: The Cyber Scam Ecosystem** - Terry Gross introduces the prevalence of cyber scams, noting that romance scams are the most lucrative and are often run by crime organizations in Laos and Cambodia.
• 2 (02:24) **The "Fresh Air" Impersonation Scam** - Gross and Greenberg discuss a scam that fraudulently uses the Fresh Air brand to trick authors into paying fake production fees.
• 3 (06:52) **Introducing "Pig Butchering"** - The conversation shifts to the main story: the "pig butchering" romance scam, the most profitable cybercrime in history.
• 4 (11:12) **The Source's Story: How "Red Bull" Became a Victim** - Greenberg recounts the first contact from his source, a computer engineer trapped in a scam compound in Laos.
• 5 (15:01) **AI as a Tool for Scammers** - Greenberg explains how AI was used inside the compound to create personas and maintain conversations.
• 6 (17:20) **Targeting and the Scale of the Scam** - The discussion covers how scammers choose their victims and the massive scale of the operation.
• 7 (20:00) **Mid-Interview Break** - A short break in the interview, followed by a return to the discussion.

+ Full timestamped outline available in the app