AI Summary
5 min read“Closure doesn’t exist,” Josh Mankiewicz told the CrimeCon audience in Las Vegas, drawing a sharp line between what true-crime narratives promise and what families actually experience. In part two of his conversation with fellow NBC journalist Alison Barber, host of the Netflix podcast Allegedly, Mankiewicz unpacked what covering murder for twenty years has taught him about grief, the legal system’s slow response to stalking, and the rare cases where families transform their loss into lasting change.
The Myth of Closure and the Ripple Effect of Murder
Mankiewicz said there is one word he avoids in Dateline episodes: closure. “It’s a nice idea, but it is not reality,” he explained. Murder splits a life into two halves—before and after—and the effects ripple outward in ways he did not understand until he began covering these cases. Children of murder victims grow up and have families of their own, and then find themselves unable to let their own kids go to sleepaway camp because the situation mirrors too directly what their family member went through. “They can’t even really explain why that is,” he said. The idea that distance and time mitigate what people feel is another comforting fiction that does not match real life.
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What you'll learn
- 1 (02:04) **Ellison Asks About Grief and Interviewing Families** - Ellison Barber asks Josh Mankowitz how he approaches families who have suffered unimaginable loss, introducing the topic of grief.
- 2 (06:33) **Transformation Through Tragedy** - Josh discusses how some families channel their grief into advocacy and action, using specific examples.
- 3 (09:36) **The Role of Non-Traditional Sources in Investigations** - Josh explains how a podcast helped solve the Kristen Smart case and why law enforcement should embrace such help.
- 4 (12:15) **Stalking: The Christine Krug Case** - Ellison introduces two stalking-related episodes, beginning with the Christine Krug case, and Josh details the systemic failures.
- 5 (15:23) **Stalking: The Morgan Fox Case** - Josh describes the second stalking case, which occurred in a workplace setting.
- 6 (15:54) **Stalking as a Systemic Legal Failure** - Josh explains how the legal system is still in its infancy regarding stalking, similar to where domestic violence was decades ago.
- 7 (17:48) **The Evolution of Anti-Stalking Laws** - Ellison and Josh discuss the history and inadequacy of anti-stalking legislation.
+ Full timestamped outline available in the app
Guests on this episode
Show Notes
In part two of this special edition of Talking Dateline, NBC News’ Ellison Barber, host of the Netflix podcast “Allegedly," sits down with Josh Mankiewicz at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas, for CrimeCon 2026. Josh tells Ellison what it’s like interviewing families who have gone through the unimaginable and how some have turned their pain into purpose. He also talks about a common thread of stalking in some of his recent episodes, and how the legal system could help protect victims before it’s too late. Plus, he takes questions from the audience.
Have a question for Talking Dateline? Send us a DM @DatelineNBC or leave a voicemail at (212) 413-5252. Your question could be featured in an upcoming episode.
Links to Dateline episodes mentioned in this session:
“Haunting” about the murders of Tom Hunter and Shirlee Sherman: https://swap.fm/l/dl_haunting
“Complicated” about the murders of Tori Vienneau and her 10-month-old baby, Dean: https://swap.fm/l/dl_complicated
Josh catches up with Tori’s mother, Danya Heroz, on “After the Verdict, available to Dateline Premium subscribers: https://dateline.supportingcast.fm/listen/dateline-nbc-premium/after-the-verdict-complicated
“Breaking Point” about the murder of FedEx mom, Morgan Fox: https://swap.fm/l/dl_breakingpoint
“The Phantom” about the murder of Kristil Krug: https://swap.fm/l/dl_thephantom
Kristil’s cousin, former prosecutor Rebecca Ivanoff, talks about stalking, coercive control, and the fight for safety: https://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/video/former-prosecutor-rebecca-ivanoff-on-stalking-coercive-control-and-the-fight-for-safety-248448581562
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