The Inner Sanctum of Trump's Second Term

Jonathan Swan, White House correspondent for the New York Times and co-author of the bestseller Regime Change: The Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump, joined Meghan McCain to discuss what he found inside an administration far more disciplined—and far harder to report on—than the first. Swan described a White House that has learned from its earlier chaos, but one where the central figure remains unchanged in key ways, even as the coalition holding him up faces an uncertain future.

A Locked-Down White House

The most striking difference between Trump's first and second terms, Swan explained, is the near-total absence of leaks. "In the first term, it was like walking around with a slop bucket," he said. Factional warfare meant aides regularly leaked against each other. That dynamic is gone. "It's much more cohesive. There are certainly differences of opinion, but it's much, much more difficult" to report now.

Swan called the reporting process for the book "infinitely more challenging" than covering the first term. The inner circle that actually runs the government is very small, and its members have learned to keep things private when it matters. He added that he is uncertain whether he will ever write another book: "This one almost killed me."

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