Becoming Something with Jonathan Pokluda

Episode 384: Reckless Love, Church Hurt & Outsinging the Angels | feat. Cory Asbury

August 10, 2026

AI Summary

5 min read

When Worship Becomes a Performance Trap

Cory Asbury, the worship leader behind the global hit "Reckless Love," has spent years wrestling with a tension familiar to many Christians: how do you keep your worship genuine when it becomes your job? On a tour bus somewhere between cities, Asbury told Jonathan "JP" Pokluda that the worship industry often frustrates him—not because he dislikes leading people, but because the line between worship and performance blurs so easily. "I actually hate that language," he said. "We are not performing to a room of twenty thousand. We are worshiping and pouring out our hearts before God in song and people are following along."

The Audience of One Principle

Asbury traces his approach to worship back to King David, who wrote psalms on the back hills of Bethlehem with no audience, no platform, no fanfare. "Bro was just singing to God," Asbury said. He modeled his own practice on that: leading worship in rooms of five people, two people, one person, even zero people. The idea was always "audience of one"—that's what matters.

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What you'll learn

1 (00:47) **Opening & Cory Asbury’s Songwriting Origin** - JP introduces Cory Asbury on the tour bus; Cory explains the heart behind his new song “Outsing the Angels.”
2 (05:32) **The Tension Between Worship & Performance** - Cory discusses how he fights the routine of leading worship hundreds of times and avoids a performance mindset.
3 (09:15) **Early Songwriting as Processing Life** - Cory shares how he started writing songs at 13 as a way to process pain, not as a formal craft.
4 (10:19) **Forrest Frank’s Influence & a Renaissance of the Soul** - Cory explains how touring with Forrest Frank revived his calling after frustration with the worship industry.
5 (13:08) **Wrestling with Cynicism in the Church** - Cory and JP discuss how to handle cynicism and offense toward church leaders and institutions.
6 (15:19) **The Cracked Cup Analogy** - JP uses an analogy of a cracked cup to explain why church leaders and Christians inevitably disappoint.
7 (17:22) **The Value of Honest Struggle** - JP affirms Cory’s transparency about doubts and frustrations, noting it makes him a powerful witness.

+ Full timestamped outline available in the app

Show Notes

This week we sit down with worship artist Cory Asbury — live from the tour bus — to talk about his journey through church hurt, online criticism, and what it looks like to come out the other side still singing. Cory opens up about the story behind "Reckless Love," his new song Prodigal God, and why he's done being cautious with his faith. If you've ever felt beaten up by the church or beaten down by the noise of social media, this episode is for you!