Animal Spirits Podcast
Animal Spirits Podcast

Talk Your Book: How Higher Rates Are Re-Shaping Commercial Real Estate

October 5, 2026

AI Summary

5 min read

Commercial real estate has been pronounced dead more than once since the pandemic, but the reality is more complicated than a simple obituary. As rates have shot up and the economy has remained surprisingly strong, the sector is experiencing a slow-motion reckoning rather than a sudden crash. On this episode of Animal Spirits, Jerry Bagland, head of real estate at Benefit Street Partners (a Franklin Templeton company), walked through how higher rates are reshaping commercial real estate lending, where the real pain is hiding, and why he has more conviction in credit strategies today than he did six months ago.

Why the Rate Spike Changes Everything (and Nothing)

The 10-year Treasury yield — the base rate for all real estate debt — has been screaming higher, and Bagland’s phone has been ringing off the hook. “If AI doesn’t kill us, the 10-year will,” he joked. The speed of the move is what’s spooking the market. It’s going to slow transaction volume, make refinancings trickier, and put pressure on valuations. That sounds like a disaster, but Bagland pushed back on the pure doom narrative. Higher rates are happening for a reason: the economy is humming. We have strong growth, massive AI investment, and productivity gains. Those are good things that put upward pressure on rates. The real problem is that the industry got addicted to the low-rate environment and assumed it wa

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What you'll learn

  • 1 Talk Your Book: How Higher Rates Are Re-Shaping Commercial Real Estate
  • 2 Animal Spirits Podcast — Interview with Jerry Bagland
  • 3 (00:05) **Opening & Context** - Michael and Ben set up the episode: predictions about the end of commercial real estate were premature but office space did crash in a "death by a thousand cuts" way, while the economy booms and rates surge.
  • 4 (03:04) **Where We Are Now: Rates Screaming Higher** - Jerry describes the immediate impact of the 10-year yield ripping higher in a short period.
  • 5 (04:52) **The Credit Side Cushion** - Jerry explains why higher rates increase his conviction in real estate credit over equity.
  • 6 (06:18) **How Real Estate Loans Actually Work** - Jerry breaks down the mechanics of commercial real estate debt and the refinancing wall.
  • 7 (07:35) **Sector Breakdown: What's Attractive vs. What to Avoid** - Jerry runs through the major real estate sectors, starting with office.

+ Full timestamped outline available in the app

Show Notes

On this episode of Animal Spirits: Talk Your Book, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Michael Batnick⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ben Carlson⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ are joined by Jerry Baglien from Benefit Street Partners to discuss: investing in real estate, higher mortgage rates, the office bear market, how higher rates impact returns and more.


To learn more, visit: credopp.com


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Ben Carlson’s ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠A Wealth of Common Sense⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Investing involves the risk of loss. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be or regarded as personalized investment advice or relied upon for investment decisions. Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson are employees of Ritholtz Wealth Management and may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this video. All opinions expressed by them are solely their own opinion and do not reflect the opinion of Ritholtz Wealth Management. See our disclosures here:

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