I Debated UFOs With America’s Top Skeptic (It Got Ugly…)

July 9, 2026

AI Summary

5 min read

In a wide-ranging and often tense exchange, Michael Shermer, publisher of Skeptic Magazine and the most prominent scientific skeptic in the United States, sat down with Jesse Michels to debate the evidence for UFOs. Shermer, who was recently appointed to the White House UAP advisory board, laid out his position clearly: he believes extraterrestrial life almost certainly exists somewhere in the universe, but he does not believe it has visited Earth. Michels, who openly admits he "wants to believe," pressed Shermer on what he considers the strongest evidence for anomalous objects operating in sensitive airspace, particularly around nuclear sites. The conversation revealed not just a disagreement about evidence thresholds, but a deeper tension about how science should handle anomalies that resist easy explanation.

The Evidence Threshold Problem

Continue reading the full summary in the app — free to try.

Read Full Summary →

Free • No credit card required

Listen to Audio Summary Open in App

Never miss an episode of American Alchemy with Jesse Michels

Get every new episode summarized in your inbox — free, ~5 minutes to read.

No spam. Unsubscribe anytime.

Show Notes

Our American Alchemist this week is Michael Shermer. Check out Michael’s book Truth: What It Is, How to Find It, and Why It Still Matters at https://amzn.to/4fstzal Please consider supporting our show by checking out our amazing sponsors below! Visit https://ketone.com/ALCHEMY for 30% OFF your subscription order PLUS receive a free gift with your second shipment—or find Ketone-IQ at Target stores nationwide and get your first shot free! Raycon: Go to https://buyraycon.com/jessemichelsbc to get 20% off the Bone Conduction Headphones! Thanks to Raycon for sponsoring! MudWtr: Start your new morning ritual & get up to 43% off your @MUDWTR with code JESSE at https://mudwtr.com/JESSE! #mudwtrpod One of the biggest names in scientific skepticism, Michael Shermer, has come to debate the strongest UFO cases ever recorded. More than 50 years of well documented UFO incursions at American nuclear weapon sites, the 2004 Nimitz “Tic Tac” encounter, what really crashed at Roswell, and the disappearance or deaths of a dozen scientists working on top secret technology are laid out in a tense exchange with the new member of the White House UAP Science Advisory Council. Shermer is the founding publisher of Skeptic Magazine, the author of more than a dozen books on belief and pseudoscience, and is betting that no major scientific institution will confirm an alien presence by the end of 2030. -------------------------- Support our other projects below! Grab Your American Alchemy Merch Here ➤ https://www.americanalchemymerch.com/ Join The American Alchemy Magazine Here ➤ https://americanalchemymagazine.substack.com/ Subscribe To Our Clips Channel (10 Minute Highlights!) ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@UC8ZKTXN9trt5dhixz6b6l6w -------------------------- Follow us and get in touch! Instagram ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TikTok ➤ https://www.tiktok.com/@itsjessemichels X ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican Spotify ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify Clips Channel ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@JesseMichelsClips Apply For Jobs ➤ [email protected] Sponsor Inquiries ➤ [email protected] Media Inquiries ➤ [email protected] Timestamps: 0:00 - Introduction 2:44 - Meet Michael Shermer 5:49 - Shermer's Position and Evidence Thresholds 14:04 - UFOs at Nuclear Missile Sites 21:28 - Sponsors (KetoneIQ, Raycon) 24:26 - Nuclear Accidents and Base Rates 26:28 - Explaining Away UAP Sightings 35:06 - Government Interest and Disclosure 45:06 - Nimitz Tic Tac Encounter 48:20 - Photos, Videos, and Witnesses 54:39 - Scientific Priority and SETI 57:58 - ET Discovery and New Physics 1:02:15 - Palomar Transients and Anomalies 1:06:04 - Dark Matter, Truth, and Belief 1:09:02 - Eyewitnesses and the Courtroom 1:14:05 - Missing Scientists and McCasland 1:21:10 - Strongest UFO Cases 1:23:35 - Graham Hancock and Göbekli Tepe 1:30:41 - Pyramids and JFK 1:31:52 - Sponsors (MUD\WTR) 1:32:58 - Manson, MKUltra, and Oswald 1:37:44 - Astronaut UFO S