Liel Leibovitz: Why the Talmud Is So Hard To Love—and Worth Loving
September 22, 2026
AI Summary
5 min readLiel Leibovitz, editor at Tablet Magazine and a Talmud teacher with host David Bashevkin, recalls the moment he realized he had a PhD from Columbia, could read Greek and Latin, and yet a single page of Talmud left him completely bewildered. “I'm thinking to myself,” he says, “this is what growth looks like. This is what change looks like.” That disorientation, he argues, is not a bug but the entire point. The Talmud is designed to refuse easy understanding, and that refusal is precisely what makes it transformative.
Why the Talmud Is the World's Worst Gym
Leibovitz describes the Talmud as “the world's worst gym.” Modern life, he says, has spoiled us with convenience—fancy juice bars, sleek machines, and the promise of visible results with minimal effort. The Talmud offers none of that. Open the first page and you are immediately thrown into a debate about the nighttime Shema with no introduction, no explanation, and no roadmap. “The Talmud does not want you to understand,” Leibovitz says. “It wants you to ask. It wants you to feel frustrated.”
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What you'll learn
- 1 (03:02) **Why This Conversation Matters** - David Bashevkin introduces the episode as part of the Talmud Daily program and explains why the Talmud is the necessary foundation for serious Jewish learning.
- 2 (06:12) **The Slow Burning Love for Talmud** - Liel describes how his journey into Talmud study happened gradually, then all at once, driven by a search for something true and lasting.
- 3 (11:04) **The Knife and the Radish: A Talmudic Microcosm** - Liel uses a seemingly mundane example from Tractate Hulin to show how the Talmud's nitty-gritty details reveal the deepest questions about life.
- 4 (13:03) **The Talmud's Genius: Changing the Fabric of Daily Life** - David connects Liel's point to David Foster Wallace's famous speech about the value of a liberal arts education—changing how you think in the supermarket line.
- 5 (16:32) **The Biggest Barrier to Talmud Study: The "Gym Think"** - Liel identifies the modern addiction to convenience as the primary obstacle to engaging with the Talmud.
- 6 (20:48) **The Talmud Is Your Unclaimed Inheritance** - Liel tells a story about a friend who discovered tens of millions of dollars in a forgotten bank account, which is exactly how he feels about the Talmud.
- 7 (24:16) **Rapid Fire: The Talmud Questionnaire** - David asks Liel a series of pre-planned rapid-fire questions about his relationship with the Talmud.
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Guests on this episode
Show Notes
You can sign up for Talmud Daily at talmuddaily.org, and you can subscribe in your podcast app by searching Talmud Daily.
In this episode, Liel reflects on falling in love with the Talmud precisely because it is so difficult—and on how its questions, frustrations, and intricate details can transform the way we live.
This episode was sponsored by Daniel and Jessica Courtney in memory of Dr. Stuart A. Courtney.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/18forty-podcast--4344730/support.
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